Everest 2014: Interview with Tim Mosedale – Small and Safe

 Each season the big name guide companies take about half of the total climbers to Everest. So who guides the rest? There are many small companies to fill this gap including Tim Mosedale out of the UK. In 2013, Tim got four of his members plus eight Sherpas on top. Tim has personally summited 4 times including from the north and south sides, becoming only the 10th Brit to summit from both sides.

Tim began his climbing career as a climbing instructor in the UK. When he wasn’t cragging, guiding and instructing in England in summer, or climbing and mountaineering in Scotland in winter, he was guiding in the Himalayas or in Greenland.

He has over 15 years’ experience in Nepal and has summited Lobuche East, Island Peak, Mera Peak and then added Ama Dablam to his list of ‘ticks’ with November 2013 being the 11th trip there. During 6 expeditions to Greenland, Tim added over 50 unclimbed peaks to his CV and then went on to summit Cho Oyu in 2006.

Tim has a focus on safety telling his members “You will turn around – even if you are only 30 minutes from the summit of Everest – if the decision is made for you”

Tim and his family live in Keswick in northern England where they also run a Bed and Breakfast.

Q: When did your interest in Everest begin?

I’d often been asked whether I was interested in Everest and quite frankly it had never appealed to me. It just seemed so high and potentially dangerous and then there was the length of time as well. Partly there was the issue of cost and, being self employed, the prospect of losing income whilst paying to be on the hill was a double whammy. But in essence, regardless of the cost implications, it just never appealed.

And then I heard about an expedition that some of my friends were putting together to go North in 2005. This coincided with me meeting a chap (now a great friend) who had just summitted in 2004 (North with Russell Brice) and when he showed me his footage my interest was piqued. The friends who were going are all great guys and prolific expeditioners and mountaineers in their own right. It was going to be a low key trip – just a bunch of mates and a few Climbing Sherpas along with a trip doctor. I realised that if I was going to join a trip on Everest then that would be how I would like to do it.

As a team of 8 climbers, 4 Climbing Sherpas, 1 cook, 2 kitchen boys and a doctor we were the smallest, cheapest trip on the hill but we also had the most experience (Ian had over 70 6,000m peaks under his belt along with Gasherbrum II and Cho Oyu (both without Os)). The Climbing Sherpas were hand picked and most of us had worked with them at some stage before so the relationship wasn’t member and guide, or employer and employee – it was just a bunch of mates having a great time on a really big hill. A bit like the old style of expeditioning – except with fewer porters and no Fortnum’s & Mason’s hampers.

We had such a great time. It was a very late season and we didn’t summit until the 30th May. Not a crossed word was said during the whole trip, despite the stressful situation that we were in, which is testament to the success of the expedition.

That was when I found out that I am pretty good at altitude and my love affair with Everest began.

Since then I have led 2 expeditions on the South side and have summited another 3 times – managing a double summit in 2013.

Q: Can you share with us something about your Sherpas, their training and your relationship with them?

I’ve been going to Nepal for 15 years now and have been working with my Sirdar and the same team of Climbing Sherpas for the last 11 years. They mostly live in the village of Pangboche (below Ama Dablam where I go every November).

It becomes a very personal relationship when you work with the same guys year in year out. You get to understand their various strengths and weaknesses which means that I’m in a better position to assign particular Sherpas to particular members according to what the requirements are.

I try and take out some goodies for them every year whether it’s clothes for their children (most of them have kids about the same age as mine) or gear. Last November I took 35kg of Haglofs clothing out for them at my own expense. The jackets and shoes were slight seconds and were donated for free but I paid around £300 to get it all freighted out there.

I also sponsor a boy in Pangboche and pay towards his schooling. His father was a Climbing Sherpa and died on Ama Dablam in 2006 when he was working with another team. I hadn’t met him but his brother and a cousin always worked on my team. It’s such a close knit community and the death of 3 Climbing Sherpas (and 3 members) in one tragedy affected every family in the village. The boy never met his father and the family have had their income stream removed so it’s nice to be able to put something back and hopefully make a difference.

Q: How does your company stand out from the other guide services?

I want to be clear here that I don’t want to try and undermine the reputation of another company to benefit mine – I think that a) it’s immoral b) people would see through it immediately and c) this is quite a small community and I believe that we are stronger together as an alliance of companies than a bunch of disparate groups so there’s no point ruffling feathers.

Having said that I also believe that there are some iniquitous practices going on. There are some companies out there who are losing members year in year out who quite frankly shouldn’t be operating. If people are dying on the mountain for the sake of not enough oxygen, or the lack of high altitude medication, then what on earth is going on? One might argue that the member had made the decision to go with that particular company and that ‘er beware’ is the issue. When you take a quick look at their websites they are cleverly worded, or there isn’t the information that one would expect to see (particularly the inclusions / exclusions, the grey areas and the small print). If a member e mails them, if they don’t know what questions to ask and they also don’t know what answers are credible, then they have no frame of reference to make a decision.

Personally I try to provide as fully inclusive a trip as possible. In particular I use a great 3 week trekking itinerary to get to Base Camp and we cross some high passes and climb a peak along the way. It’s nice to get away from the masses, to relax a little and remove some of the psychological pressure. I also use this time to do training sessions or chat about issues and protocols which means that when we get to Everest Base Camp everyone is fit, healthy, acclimatised and focussed. We then switch from fun trekking mode to fun (but serious) expedition mode.

On the hill glossy brochures and flashy websites count for nothing – it’s leadership and mentoring, it’s the level of service, the logisitics, the inclusions at Camp 2 (not everyone has a mess tent with electric lighting and gas heating!) and, in particular, the safety net on the summit push. By safety net I mean the amount of oxygen carried, the amount of spare oxygen available (we also carry a spare mask and regulator on summit day), the radio comms with Base Camp (and within the group) and the medication that is available, to hand.

We are one of only a few teams who all carry high altitude medication on summit day. It’s all very well a leader having an injection of dexamethasone (a steroidal drug for High Altitude cerebral Oedema) but if the member is half an hour in front or an hour behind then it is useless. My members all have a small tupperware box with injectable dex, dex tablets, sublingual nifedipine, nifedipine retard, diamox, buccastem, stemetil, codeine and paracetamol. The box weighs in at about the same as a king sized chocolate bar – but unlike a chocolate bar the contents will save a life. I run a session on giving injections at Base Camp and we discuss the pros and cons of in the thigh or the arm, through the clothing or exposing bare flesh, can you do it with mitts on etc etc and everyone has a practice. There’s a crib sheet glued to the lid so they don’t have to remember anything.

We also run a session on masks and oxygen protocols so that there is another unknown removed from the equation. If the first time you wear a mask for real is at Camp 3 going to The South Col it’s a bit late to find out that you feel claustrophobic or that the mask and you combination of glasses / goggles / hat / balaclava / helmet don’t work together. To be fair I guess most expeditions will run an oxygen sessions but we go in to a lot of details with ours.

It’s the trip of a lifetime and there’s a lot of pressure for the members so I try and create an environment where they can relax, have fun, are well looked after with lots of extra goodies. I’m renowned for taking along a few barrels of extras. I get a load of stuff freighted across for the UK like liquorice allsorts, Cadbury’s fudge bars, boxes of Tangfastics, beef jerky and the like. I also stuff in Kathmandu like olives, gherkins, caperberries, pistachios etc etc. So when we are chilling for the day playing cards or dice, listening to music or watching a movie one evening there’s plenty of pate, cheese, crackers, coffee, biscuits, savoury snacks and sweet goodies.

I also believe the trip ought to be a lot of fun. I endeavour to recreate the fantastic experience that I had with my mates in 2005 as it was the trip ever. I can’t force people to like each other but I can try and create an environment where members realise the importance of getting along with each other. If folk went home having summited but said it was a shite trip I think that would be a real shame. Conversely if someone doesn’t summit then they will obviously be disappointed (as will I) but I hope that they would still have had a great time.

Q: Everest has such a rich climbing history from the early 1920s to the 1950s, ‘90s and today. What period interests you the most?

The expeditions of the 1920’s. A great sense of adventure and exploration and, I imagine, a similar camaraderie to our 2005 north side expedition.

Also the British 1975 Everest SW Face expedition. It was an amazing feat and in its day was undoubtedly the hardest high altitude climbing ever undertaken. Whilst there were some very strong personalities on the trip, and various disagreements ensued, it was still a bunch of mates having a go on a big hill.
 
Coincidentally Sir Chris Bonington lives close by and I’ve done some slide shows with him and I used to work for Doug Scott. They’re both awesome guys who are still passionate about the mountains and are still great buddies after all these years.
 
I hope that I will have that same love for the hills when I’m their age and I’d like to think that I’ll still be great mates with Stuart and Ian. In 2005 we all summited together so we have a very special shared experience and consequently it goes way beyond any regular friendship. They both live in Keswick and we often go fell running or climbing together.

Q: How is your 2014 looking?

I have the makings of another great team for Everest with quite a few people asking all the right questions. Presently it looks as if there will be 5 or 6 along. Same for 2015 and 2016 as well. I’m even training a chap who is looking at Everest 2017 – now that is a sensible approach if ever there was one.

I have 7 deposits already for Ama Dablam in November and am meeting some folk to discuss their Ama Dablam trip for 2015.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Q: What do think is the biggest misconception about Everest Guides?

I think that some of the Climbing Sherpas assume that we are making a bundle of money on the back of all their hard work. There are vast overheads involved and a lot of things to factor in (peak permit costs, Liaison Officer costs, Climbing Sherpa and Base Camp staff, oxygen, insurance for the crew, porterage of gear to Base Camp, my place on the trip etc etc). I also have the additional expense of the 3 week trekking itinerary to factor in as well. That’s obviously my choice but it is quite an expensive option that basically removes income from the bottom line – but I don’t see it that way I see it as additional value for money.

Undoubtedly the Climbing Sherpas and High Altitude Staff work hard and indeed we wouldn’t stand much of a chance (if any) of getting safely up and down without them. But some Sherpas assume that they could remove the Western guides (and companies) and run the ship themselves (I guess this is also true of many companies around the world where the shop floor staff assume that everything would run tickedy boo without the hierachy who are driving BMWs as a result of all their hard work).

Unfortunately this is definitely not the case because the guides generally (but not always) have a different level of care, understanding and empathy with their members. I think it’s probably true to say that the Western Guides also have a better understanding or risk assessment, high altitude physiology, first aid issues and attention to detail. They can probably manage their members’ expectations better as well, coming from the same or a similar cultural background, and lastly there is much less likelihood of any misunderstandings because of language barriers.

The reality is that it’s a symbiotic relationship where we need each other and we are all on the same side.

Q: Recently you posted an article on using poo bags on Ama Dablam, Do you think this will one day include Everest?

I hope so – although it isn’t as much of a problem on Everest as it is on Ama Dablam even though there are more people on the mountain.

There’s already a policy of having Base Camp poo removed (we crap in to a black bag in a blue barrel which is taken away when it’s full) whereas on the hill a toilet tent is usually placed over a crevasse. Camps at 1 and 2 are quite vast so there isn’t the same problem of having a group of people all needing to go at some stage because there’s more space. It becomes a bit more of an issue at Camp, 3 where the tent spaces are a bit more limited, but we only spend one night there (some groups spend 2 or 3) so there’s less waste anyway (and fewer people at that altitude as well). And most people are pretty dehydrated by the time they get to The South Col and so probably won’t be needing to use any facilities anyway.

I know there will be folk out there who will find it abhorrent that waste isn’t cleared up and that it should be bagged out …. but if dog owners who bag their doggy poo can’t even get to a bin at sea level (and would rather hang the pooh bag in a hedge where it will take longer to rot down) then what hope have we got of getting people to carry human waste down the hill?

As with my concerns over human waste on Ama Dablam, I don’t want there to be a policy where waste has to be removed and it then becoming a job that the Climbing Sherpas have to do. On Ama Dablam tossing it over the edge will be perfectly acceptable and people are less likely to cut corners. If you try and enforce a policy where they have to carry it down they’ll find it repugnent and will just go behind a rock and then we’re back to square one.

Unfortunately I’m pretty sure it will take time to catch on.

Q: Tell us about your other career, the B&B in Keswick?

It certainly keeps me busy. Running a B&B is not for everyone as it is very time heavy for little return. Partly it’s a means to an end as it allows us to live in a lovely property in Keswick (a beautiful market town in the Lake District National Park) and I don’t have to do as many expeditions as I used to. I absolutely love being on expedition but I missed my daughter’s first words, her first birthday and her first steps, in that order, because I was on Cho Oyu and then Ama Dablam. I realised that if I wasn’t careful I was going to be an absent dad and I actually quite like spending time with my family! I get to see the children more than most Dad’s do – although they then find it difficult when I go away because it goes from being there 24/7 to being away 24/7.

My wife is a and I also run 1:1 or 2:1 rock climbing courses in The Lakes so we have to juggle everything carefully between us. Occasionally, if Ali is on a 12 hour shift and I can’t get a member of staff to cover at the B&B, I’ll have a manic day where I have to get the kids ready for school, take them to breakfast club, serve breakfast for the B&B guests, service their rooms while they are eating, clear the table, load the dish washers, pinny off, harness on, take some folk climbing, answer a few texts and e mails during lunch, continue climbing, collect the kids, unload the dishwashers, lay the table, process any bookings that have come for the B&B, help the kids with their homework, make a few calls, get the children bathed and read to them before they go to bed and then, in extremis, I might even have a bed to change and an room to clean before guests arrive that evening.

Phew!

And on a personal note my wife would like to pass on her appreciation to you for all the hard work you do keeping your site updated throughout the busy Everest season. I obviously keep in touch with my family back home but you provide a very valuable overview of what’s going on. You do a great job of providing a value stream of information for all the friends and family of any members who are on the hill.

Thanks and have a great season Tim. His team is climbing on the South side and you can follow them on his website

Climb On
Alan
Memories are Everything